00:00:01:.00 Speaker 1

You're listening to The LeaderFactor, a podcast where we take leadership principles and distill them intoactionable behaviors, shareable frameworks, and scalable initiatives. Here areyour hosts, Tim and Junior.

00:00:18:.12 Junior: We live.We’re rolling. Rolling, Tim.

00:00:21:.20 Tim: Okay. Let'sroll.

00:00:22:.27 Junior: Welcome,everyone, to today's Leader Factor webinar. The coaching and accountabilitymatrix. We are super excited to have you with us today. We have some earlyrisers.

00:00:32:.25 Tim: Yeah. You knowwhat I just saw some late sleepers. It's 3 a.m. in Wellington, New Zealand. Ijust learned.

00:00:38:.21 Junior: That. Who is inWellington?

00:00:40:.29 Tim: Good for you.Thank you for being with.

00:00:42:.29 Junior: Thank you forbeing here. I see Pakistan, Canada, Texas, England, Arizona. Wow. We got a lotof time.

00:00:51:.20 Tim: Zones going on. Yeah,we do.

00:00:53:.13 Junior: So, thank youfor staying up late or getting up early. Or maybe it's you're just kicking offthe day. Maybe it's the middle of the day. Regardless, we are super excited tohave your back. It's been a while since we've done our last webinar.

00:01:06:.17 Tim: How's it has.Glad to be back.

00:01:08:.11 Junior: Glad to beback. Live. Glad to be in the studio. A huge thank you to the Leader Factorteam who's on the other side of this. And here with us.

00:01:15:.09 Tim: The wholeproduction.

00:01:16:.04 Junior: Crew puttingthis on. So, thank you in the chat for the leader factor team, for helping makeall of this possible. Could not do it without the team, that is for sure. We'vecome a long way since we started our first webinar. We have 37webinar.

00:01:30:.18 Tim: Is that what itis? Whatever it is, it's to.

00:01:32:.05 Junior: Count 300podcast episodes or whatever it is. Yeah. So, if you've joined a LeaderFactorwebinar before, go ahead and let us know in the chat. If you are regular on theleader factor podcast, we would love to hear that as well. Make yourself known.And if you have any topic suggestions along the way, we'd love to know those aswell.

00:01:50:.16 Junior: We've gotsome great episodes that are forthcoming. So, since the last, webinar, we'vebeen hard at work. Yes, we've accomplished a few things. I jotted down just afew things, in my notes that have happened since the last time we were here.We’ve shipped a few hundred thousand lines of code. Our CTO wishes we hadeliminated a few hundred thousand lines of code.

00:02:11:.25 Junior: We've shippedquite a bit. We formally trained over 16,000 leaders and half day workshopssince the last time we were here. We've added nine languages to Leader Factorapp. We've collected tens of thousands of surveys, recorded over 1200 formalclient success calls, and we just crossed a million data points in index.

00:02:29:.19 Tim: That's myfavorite, factoid, JRE because we are data driven. And so, to cross themillion, threshold is quite an accomplishment, I think.

00:02:40:.05 Junior: So todaywe're talking about the coaching and accountability matrix. I'll start us offwith some introductions for those of you who are new to Leader Factor. So, ourinstitutional mission is to influence the world for good at scale. That's whywe're here. That's why we're doing today's webinar. We don't have to do thesewebinars. We don't have to do the podcast.

00:03:01:.21 Junior: It's a lot ofwork.

00:03:02:.19 Tim: But it's a lotof fun, though.

00:03:04:.07 Junior: It is a lotof fun. It supports our institutional mission, and our vision is to enableleaders to lead themselves, lead the team, and lead the organization. What doyou think about our framework?

00:03:14:.12 Tim: That's how weview leadership. It's how we view what we do. It's how we view the naturalprogression of leadership as well.

00:03:24:.00 Junior: And ourvalues are the rise values respect, integrity, skill and effort. And we reallyappreciate that for one effort. And again, I just can't stop saying thank youto the team to be able to do this. And I’m super grateful for the technologythat allows us to do this. We have people from everywhere. So, I think it'sworthwhile to scroll in the chat, see where everybody's from, and justacknowledge what a cool thing it is that we're all here together.

00:03:48:.22 Junior: And we allhave interest in leadership. Otherwise, I don't think you'd be attending thisat 3 a.m. So, who are all of you? That's who we are. Today's event. Youprobably fall into three buckets if you're attending this event. The first isaspiring leaders. We'll say people leaders, those who are yet to have directreports.

00:04:08:.08 Tim: Individualcontributors, individual contributors.

00:04:11:.04 Junior: And then those who are already.

00:04:13:.21 Tim: People, people.

00:04:14:.09 Junior: Leaders, they have direct reports.

00:04:16:.06 Tim: And leading teams.

00:04:17:.00 Junior: They're leading teams. And finally, a third group, andthere are probably quite a few of you out there, those who help leaders inside,HR inside. And that's a special group that's near and dear to our heartsbecause it's who we partner with. Institutional every single day, helpingorganizations like yours around the globe to implement content like we’re goingto talk about today to help leaders become better.

00:04:40:.28 Tim: You know what I love about what we do gender, is that thepeople in HR are the people in talent development, the people in and humancapital. And they are great people. They sure are around the world. And so it'ssuch a privilege to work with this, this high caliber of individual everywhere.It’s amazing.

00:05:00:.12 Junior: It's feedback that we get all the time when we’reonboarding new employees that are client facing, especially if they're inclient success or they're in sales. It's true. They'll come back after the firstfew engagements, the first few calls and meetings with clients, and they’ll say,this is.

00:05:16:.00 Tim: Weird.

00:05:16:.20 Junior: Yeah, everyone's so nice. Everyone's so genuine.

00:05:19:.28 Tim: Yeah.

00:05:20:.10 Junior: And so, I count it as.

00:05:21:.21 Tim: A business that we're.

00:05:22:.20 Junior: In. It is. And it's a great privilege to be able towork with all of you. So, in turn, we're going to hopefully create some valuefor you today. So, let's go through our agenda. We've got five things that wewant to cover. One is the current state as leader factor. We have a unique vantagepoint in the world of leadership because we're dealing with organizations allaround the globe, every industry, every sector.

00:05:45:.27 Junior: And we're seeing boots on the ground. What’s going onin leadership, what's going on at the macro level, what's going on at theground level inside organizations? What's happening? Gia graphically in differentareas of the world. What do you think about that?

00:05:59:.13 Tim: Well, I always I often like to say, junior, that we’re inthe pattern recognition business and we have, as you say, a global view acrosssectors, across industries. And we're going to be talking about a pattern and agap. The gap is the pattern that we see all the time, everywhere. And that’swhy we're having this webinar today.

00:06:21:.17 Junior: Well, and you have a unique seat as well, becauseyou're dealing most often at the executive level. And so, some of the biggestorganizations in the world are giving you information that's right, aboutwhat's going on inside their organizations. Yeah. So, I'm really grateful tohave you here to be able to share that with us. And on that note, we'll do justa couple brief intros in case you haven't met us before.

00:06:42:.26 Junior: I'm Junior, I'm the CEO here at LeaderFactor, andco-hosting with me today is Doctor Tim Clark.

00:06:48:.29 Tim: Good to be with you.

00:06:49:.27 Junior: Tim's an Oxford trained social scientist, is thefounder and CEO of our organization Leader Factor, and is the author of theFour Stages of Psychological Safety. Many of you may know him from that book, maybeEpic Change, a few other books that Tim's written, but, yeah, really excited tobe here with you today. So, the gap that you talked about, then we're going to moveinto solution.

00:07:11:.09 Junior: We're not going to just frame the problem and thenleave you there. We're going to give you something to do about it. And thesolution is where we'll be spending most of our time today talking aboutcoaching and talking about accountability. Fourth is a big thank you. Wementioned how great you all are. And we're going to tell you that a couple oftimes.

00:07:27:.22 Junior: We're also going to show you that. We’re going to showyou a thank you. And that show you is going to be at the end of today’sconversation. So, stick around. We'll have something that we think will be very,very valuable to you and your organization as a thank you from us. And fifth,not least, we're going to we're going to take some time for Q&A.

00:07:45:.16 Junior: So we'll leave ten minutes at the back end of today'sconversation around minute 50 or so. And we'll see if we can get yourquestions. So, if you have questions during today's conversation, go ahead andthrow them in the chat. If it's something technical, something practical, andour team can help you. We've got a bunch of people in the chat.

00:08:02:.19 Junior: Or you can throw it in the Q&A that will go into abig bucket of questions, and Gillian will help us by picking a few of those outat the end of the conversation. And kind of we'll take those off the

cuff. Great. Here's a sneak peekof what's coming as the show you. Thank you. If you haven't been in LeaderFactor app, this may look foreign to you.

00:08:20:.27 Junior: If you have, you'll feel right at home. But a lot ofthe content that we're going to be going through today will be available insidethe Leader Factor app. So, Tim, I want to start off with a question to you.What is the objective of a leader?

00:08:36:.14 Tim: Well, there are three domains as we said right lead self-leadthe team lead the organization. And I think what we want to focus on today ismoving the transition from leading self as an individual contributor to leadinga team, having direct reports and being able to lead through others. So, movingfrom direct to indirect contribution, that's a difficult transition.

00:09:04:.14 Tim: But I think that's what we want to focus on today.

00:09:06:.16 Junior: It's a difficult transition and it’s underrated in ourworld. It is leadership development. We don't key off of that as much as weshould.

00:09:14:.15 Tim: Yeah.

00:09:15:.11 Junior: Part of the point here is that we can't do this work.Whatever our work is, regardless of our organization, we can't do it withoutother people. We can't do it alone. We need leverage and so much of leadershipis about leverage. In the conversation today, we'll focus on that point. How dowe gain better leverage.

00:09:33:.12 Tim: So junior, a way of saying it is if you move from being anindividual contributor to leading a team, you're stepping into the world ofleverage. At least you should be. You should be. But what we're finding andhave found across really the world is that many are not many are not makingthat successful transition and stepping into the world of leverage, becoming aforce multiplier, learning how to scale, influence and impact.

00:10:01:.28 Tim: They're struggling with that.

00:10:03:.10 Junior: Yeah. We're going to ask two different questions and wewant you to reply in the chat. So, here's our first question. What percentageof your team's critical thinking do you feel responsible for. So, we want anumber in the chat. And if you've got teammates on this call give us a healthyrange that will work to yeah, we want to see 100 out the gate.

00:10:26:.12 Junior: That was a quick response 100% 7085.

00:10:29:.28 Tim: Hey these are some high numbers. Junior.

00:10:32:.02 Junior: These are really interesting actually.

00:10:34:.02 Tim: These are some high.

00:10:34:.21 Junior: Numbers 60, 50, ten. Thanks for blowing up the chat,guys. You got everyone is really going to town here 100% 50, 25, 50,50, 40.

00:10:46:.19 Tim: Okay. 90, 90, 80, 75, 62.5.

00:10:53:.14 Junior: Approximately 62.5%. Sheesh. I feel responsible forokay. Thank you everybody for answering that question. We’re going to go to.

00:11:01:.25 Tim: How do you see a pattern? We'll come back to it. But doyou see a pattern.

00:11:05:.14 Junior: Do you see the pattern recognition business.Something's happening. Yeah okay. Question two how many of you feel moreaccountable for your team's performance than your team members do? This is alsoan interesting question. Go ahead and throw that answer in the chat. Me andRazer's. Yes, big time. Yes, yes 90 yes. Absolutely okay. Yeah. Trendspotting.

00:11:31:.07 Tim: Yes. Another pattern.

00:11:33:.00 Junior: Yeah. So, the two patterns here, which probably areobvious at this point, are these and this speaks to the gap the problem. Right.That we've identified that often. And the way that it's posed on the slide isthe poll. Yes. But leaders feel like they do the majority of the criticalthinking on their team, and they feel mostly responsible.

00:11:58:.13 Junior: They feel the lion's share of responsibility for theoutcomes, the results on their team. How does that make a leader feel? Thatman, I've got to do all the critical thinking and I'm almost exclusively responsiblefor what happens. How do you think they feel?

00:12:12:.09 Tim: Well, I would just I would just put the question to theaudience, is there a problem with that? Right. And I think there's a massiveproblem with that. And it is an acute chronic gap issue that we see across theboard. We have to acknowledge that we continue to move away, junior, from theimperial model of leadership, where the leader is the repository of answers,the leader is the oracle, and we know we're moving away, but look at how thisparadigm is so entrenched.

00:12:51:.04 Tim: And even if it's not entrenched, even if you don’t embracethat paradigm, there's still way too many leaders that are doing most of thecritical thinking and feel most of the ownership for the outcomes.

00:13:01:.20 Junior: And many of them are doing it in good faith.

00:13:04:.09 Tim: They are.

00:13:04:.28 Junior: And that's an important point. It is. It’s not thatthey're just trying to take all of it, although that sometimes happens, right?They're willing if they would have it otherwise, if they had the tools and theknowhow to be able to do that.

00:13:17:.17 Tim: I had a fortune 500 CEO say to me the other day, thebiggest single problem or need or challenge that I have with my managementpopulation is a lack of critical thinking skills. So, there you go. That's a that’sa key insight.

00:13:35:.22 Junior: Yeah, it is a key insight, especially if they’reexclusively responsible for the critical thing.

00:13:40:.00 Tim: That's right.

00:13:40:.28 Junior: Okay. So, here's the solution. Sneak peek at thesolution. This is the coaching and accountability matrix. Some of you may haveseen this in the past. Some of you this may be your first time. And you’llnotice there are two axes. What we're going to be doing in this conversation isbreaking this model apart into its component pieces and then putting it backtogether to help you understand.

00:14:01:.12 Junior: So, we're not going to go through this whole thingright now. We just want to give you an idea of where we're going. And you’llnotice two axes on the x axis. We have coaching. On the y axis we have accountability.The name of the webinar. Then we have a transfer of critical thinking that’shappening as we're coaching.

00:14:18:.02 Junior: And a transfer of ownership that's happening is we'retransferring accountability. So, if those two things are really low on ourteams and we want them to be high, we're going to help you do that so that youand your leaders can eventually answer to those two questions. I participate incritical thinking, but I'm not exclusively responsible for it.

00:14:37:.10 Junior: And yes, I am responsible for some of the outcomes, butit's shared across the team. That's right. So how did we get there? How did weget to the place where a fortune 500 CEO comes to you and says, this is mybiggest problem, this is my biggest need. It's a lack of formal leadershiptraining and that may seem tried, may seem on the nose.

00:14:56:.04 Junior: Yeah, just train your people better. But this issystemic. So, I would love if you could give us an understanding broad strokesof the problem here in leadership development and why we're calling this out asa need.

00:15:09:.16 Tim: Well, I think, junior, I alluded to it before. There's aclash of paradigm forms, right? As we're moving from the imperial model to acollaborative, inclusive model. So, the first thing is do you can do you can seeof your role as a leader in the correct way. You're trying to become a forcemultiplier. You ‘retrying to step into the world of leverage.

00:15:32:.24 Tim: You're trying to scale, influence and impact. How do youdo that? There's only one way you can do that. With each of your directreports. You've got to transfer critical thinking to them, and you have totransfer ownership to them. So, when we talk about coaching, generally peoplesay, oh yeah, I need to be a good coach and coaching is important.

00:15:55:.15 Tim: They are grossly understating the importance of what hasto happen here. Yeah, coaching may well be the single most important skill inbeing able to lead a team, because it's the mechanism through which youtransfer your ownership and critical thinking. And if you can't do that, youreally are not leading a team and you're not creating leverage in theorganizational sense.

00:16:24:.19 Junior: And if we don't do this well, we experience somesymptoms. And in the chat, we've got a lot with Amy, Rodgers says we’reexhausted. Penny fatigue scared. Big problem. Alicia overwhelmed. Randy. I’mthe only one with skin in the game. Sharp. Hence the burnout. Exhausted. And soif we don't learn how to do this, you can see how we end up there.

00:16:43:.16 Junior: And I think a lot of leaders feel this. A lot ofleaders of leaders see that in their people and in themselves. And so we’rehere to say there's a solution to this problem. And one of the things we haveto start with is an orientation around the fact that it's not them problem,it’s an US problem.

00:17:00:.18 Junior: We them.

00:17:01:.10 Tim: Leaders, that's what we start.

00:17:02:.08 Junior: With. That’s where we have to start, because we cansay, well, you know, they're just the ones that aren't taking ownership.They're not doing the critical thinking. But there are a whole host of thingsthat we can do and bunch of tools that we’ll share today that will help us dothat.

00:17:15:.00 Tim: And let's remember, remember, junior, the leader sets theterms of engagement with each direct report, right. What's the relationship?What are the expectations and how should you think about your role? That's theleader's job.

00:17:29:.21 Junior: It is. And we talked at the beginning about LeaderFactor's values helping people lead self-team and organization. And we wantedto back way up and use this as a slide to help frame the conversation, tounderstand the transition that happens between lead self and lead the team. Sowhen you move from lead self to lead the team, something happens.

00:17:49:.09 Junior: You move from direct contribution to indirectcontribution, right? Help us understand that.

00:17:55:.03 Tim: It's the most fundamental transition in the way that youcontribute, that you will ever experience in professional life.

00:18:03:.03 Junior: It's a big statement.

00:18:04:.00 Tim: Even if you become the CEO one day junior, you’ll never gothrough such a fundamental transition from direct to indirect. So what doesthat imply? It implies that we need new skills. It implies an emotional and apsychological transition. And to get there, you're Trent. You are nowcontributing primarily through other people. So how do you do that.

00:18:31:.25 Tim: And we often talk about coaching and people say, oh yeah,we need to be a good coach, and I need coaching skills. But what is thefundamental objective? It's to learn how to contribute through others. It's tolearn how to transfer critical thinking and ownership. That's how you step intothe world of leverage.

00:18:51:.25 Junior: And that's the next slide. You have to hold peopleaccountable and you have to coach. And those are two things that you reallydidn't have to do much of as an individual contributor. You were responsiblealmost exclusively for yourself. When you're thrown into that role. And whatnormally happens is you become technically proficient. You do really well as andI see, right.

00:19:10:.20 Junior: And then they give you the nod and say, great, nowyou're in charge of a team because you did so well by yourself. Yeah.

00:19:15:.22 Tim: And maybe you are good at collaborating for sure. That'sfantastic as an individual contributor. But collaborating is not the same thingas coaching. Say more because you have to transfer the ownership and thecritical thinking. And so it's we're talking about different skills, addedskills. It's not just collaboration. It's not just working together. Right. Soyou are now responsible to accelerate the development of your direct report.

00:19:44:.28 Tim: And you're also responsible to improve the performance ofthe team. 00:19:50:.06 Junior: I would be interested everyone in the chat. Areyou seeing what we're seeing. Are you experiencing this where people are movingfrom an individual contributor role into a people leader role. They're movingfrom direct to indirect contribution and we're having some problems. There's alittle bit of friction there. I'd be interested to see. While you’re answeringthat question, we're going to move into the definition of, well, I don't evenhave to wait.

00:20:14:.23 Junior: You guys are right in there. Yes. Absolutely no skillsupport and learning how to do that. Yeah the accountability piece is missing.Happens all the time. Yeah. And this is the great irony. And I still for yearsand years and years I'm wondering why this has to be ironic that this is soimportant for an organization to do well.

00:20:35:.06 Junior: Yet the resource and the time and the energy allocatedto solving this problem is just not there.

00:20:39:.29 Tim: And let me just make this point to times.

00:20:42:.03 Junior: Some organizations dodo it well.

00:20:43:.29 Tim: You don't graduate from leading a team when you become asenior leader. Yeah. Because even if you go to the C-suite, you still have ateam to lead. Yeah. And it becomes even more important, you know, if anything.And so we've got to come to mastery with these skills and then continue to dothem well throughout our professional lives.

00:21:09:.18 Junior: I love Ken’s comment. You mean to tell me this is notinnate? Yeah.

00:21:14:.12 Tim: Exactly. Exactly.

00:21:16:.01 Junior: Exactly. I love that comment.

00:21:17:.13 Tim: Thank you.

00:21:18:.05 Junior: And yes, the training isn't there. Nobody trains forthis. I'm glad that you are all seeing this problem, because it’s precisely theproblem that we've identified and are going to solve. So if you hang around tothe end, we're going to give you some tools to help you solve this problem.Okay. So what is coaching a one to 1 or 1 to team dialogic process by which youfacilitate development.

00:21:39:.10 Junior: And the person being coached by doing what?Transferring critical thinking?

00:21:43:.20 Tim: Yes.

00:21:44:.10 Junior: So help me understand coaching. You said it’s notcollaboration. How much time do we spend developing leaders on the coachingfront, most of the time.

00:21:54:.18 Tim: Very little. Sometimes we'll do a little bit of coaching.People do a little bit of coaching skills, but they don't understand that. It'sthe fundamental mechanism for transferring ownership and critical thinking. Iknow I keep saying that a lot. Yeah, but that is the primary objective ofcoaching and it is the way that we are able to create the organizationalleverage.

00:22:18:.16 Tim: So let's break this down a little bit. Junior.

00:22:20:.14 Junior: Yep. We're going to go into what's called the coachingcontinuum. So if you remember I don't know which way the cameras going whichway my axes should be. But x y if you remember that first axis that showed thetell to ask the coaching continuum. So this is the first piece of that largermodel that we're going to break down.

00:22:39:.22 Junior: And this runs from tell on one side of the spectrum toask on the other side, all coaching is done through this. So when you’re put incharge of other people and you communicate with them, you’re doing one of twothings. You're saying stuff where you're asking stuff, nothing else.

00:22:55:.23 Tim: That's it, that's it. That's your continuum. That’s whatyou have to use.

00:22:58:.19 Junior: And so every single leader tends toward a certaindirection. Either they lean and are biased toward the tail end of the spectrum,or they lean. Ask now there are times and seasons even, that you should leanone way or the other. Great coaches use both ends of the spectrum, and thenthey do that well. But what if you make camp at the tail end?

00:23:22:.16 Junior: What happens?

00:23:24:.03 Tim: Well, think about that. Yeah. If you tend to spend most ofyour time at the tail end of the coaching continuum, then what are you doing?You're not transferring critical thinking. You're creating dependency, evenlearned helplessness. So that becomes a DSL narrator for the development andthe growth of your people. That's pretty serious.

00:23:48:.27 Junior: It’s hugely serious.

00:23:50:.02 Tim: Right.

00:23:50:.14 Junior: So if you park there, you can see in the slide it's aninhibitor to development. So how much critical thinking are you transferring ifyou're just telling. And that speaks to the Imperial model that you talkedabout before. Yeah. If you assume that you are the repository of all answers,why would you ask a question?

00:24:08:.02 Tim

Yeah.

00:24:08:.27 Junior: And if you feel maybe you don't even think you are, butfeel that you should be, if that's what the institution has led you to believe,that you, by golly, better have the answer. If someone asks you a question, youmay just come up with one. That's right. Here's an answer. Take it. Run withit. That's it.

00:24:24:.19 Tim: And you can see junior that also that ego and insecurityget in the way often. Right? I remember having a boss and his paradigm was cometo me, I'll give you the answer and then dispatch you, send you on your way.Right. He it's as if he came from the first industrial revolution. But this is2025 and that's not going to work, especially in a highly dynamic environment.

00:24:56:.05 Junior: Oh, not that it was ever ideal to begin with.

00:24:58:.00 Tim: That's right.

00:24:58:.13 Junior: Right. So I would be interested in the chat if youwould let us know if you've experienced this. Leaders who live at the tail endof the spectrum, what does that look like? What consequences does that bringwith it? On the flip side, we have ask. Ask is an accelerator beta of development.It enables discretion at the other side of the table.

00:25:20:.06 Junior: It's open minded. There's autonomy inherent in askingquestions. Yeah, that's where we thrive in dynamic environments is by asking.Telling is assumptive. If the ground is shifting beneath our feet, as youprobably have noticed, it is, you can't rely on tell. You can't assume knowledgeof the current state because the current state's changing all the time. That’swhy Ask becomes so important in the transfer of critical thinking.

00:25:50:.13 Junior: And here's an interesting point. Many leaders come tous and they feel bogged down in the mire of management. They don't have theleverage they want. They're tired, they're burned out, and they are answering,

you know, 80, 90% to that question,how much critical thinking are you doing on your team's behalf? If you wantleverage and you're parked at the tail end of the spectrum, it should be nosurprise to you that you're doing a lion's share of the critical thinking andthat you don't have the leverage you would like.

00:26:19:.23 Junior: So what has to happen there? In order to answer a lowernumber on that front, we have to take ownership and say, hey, there's somethingwe can do about it. We need to become better at coaching from the ask end ofthe.

00:26:29:.19 Tim: Spectrum, and you're going to have to move. You’re goingto have to move to the inquiry end, and you're going to have to learn how tolead more through questions than answers. And JR, it's abundantly clear, as wework with a lot of leaders around the world that the best leaders demonstrate apattern of inquiry based leadership. Yeah, they lead primarily at the ask endof the coaching continuum.

00:26:56:.02 Junior: We've spoken pretty negatively of the tail end of thespectrum, but there's a time and a place for sure. So maybe tell us a littlebit about that. Well is it appropriate.

00:27:02:.23 Tim: Yeah. Think about it. And for all of you who are watching,when would it be appropriate to use primarily the tail end of the coachingcontinuum? When does that make sense situationally? When does that make sense?Go ahead and throw it in the chat. In what kinds of situations do you need tobe mainly at the tail end of the coaching continuum?

00:27:22:.27 Tim: You have any thoughts on that? Because there are use caseswhere that is the right thing to do, you need to be there.

00:27:30:.06 Junior: I love the comments in the chat right now about bothquestions. Asking builds capacity. Yes, I think it's part of their role to telland have all of the answers to much telling kills morale because of themicromanaging. Feel that it leads to very push versus pull culture. That’s goodsafety issues, emergencies, true crisis. Okay, so now we're getting into whenis appropriate safety new to role.

00:27:55:.03 Tim: Yep. Neutral safety. Keep going. What else do we have.

00:27:59:.02 Junior: Junior emergency.

00:28:00:.07 Tim: Emergency.

00:28:01:.06 Junior: Earthquake evacuation.

00:28:02:.11 Tim: Earthquake evacuation. Thank you.

00:28:04:.27 Junior: Is evacuation best practice or is it still the doorway?I don't know, command and control. When there's a fire.

00:28:12:.03 Tim: When there’s a fire?

00:28:13:.02 Junior: Yeah. Physical or.

00:28:14:.05 Tim: Metaphorical. Right. So there are use cases.

00:28:16:.26 Junior: Yeah.

00:28:17:.25 Tim: But setting those aside, are we the bias. The bias shouldbe to spend as much time at the asking as you possibly can to lead throughinquiry, because what are you doing? You're transferring the majority of thecritical thinking. And that's exactly what we need to do.

00:28:35:.25 Junior: I would be interested in the chat if you could tell usfrom the flip side. So when you have asked good questions and you’ve tendedtoward that end of the coaching continuum, what has your experience been? Hasit been better? Have you learned to do that more overtime? I'd also love tohear what's going on that front.

00:28:53:.21 Junior: Okay. Empowered and valued. Yeah, these are good. Iwish I could keep up with all of you.

00:28:59:.19 Tim: This is awesome. It goes a little more.

00:29:01:.18 Junior: More innovation takes practice. We got a lot of peoplein this webinar. Okay. Let's go into the next one. Accountability. So someoneasked I mean I don't know, 500 chats ago what accountability was. It's beinganswerable for performance. That's about as succinctly as we can put it. Whatwould you say as we kind of dive into this piece?

00:29:20:.29 Junior: Accountability.

00:29:21:.24 Tim: It's the other thing you've got to transfer.

00:29:23:.18 Junior: Yep.

00:29:24:.06 Tim: So it can't be one or the other. We've got to transfercritical thinking. We've got to transfer ownership and all of the accountability.So they go together. If you can accomplish those two things, that is the litmustest for being a great coach. That's when you know that you're really doing itright.

00:29:45:.04 Junior: And that's the other axis on the model that we talkedabout before. So we've talked about the coaching continuum, that x-axis. Nowwe're going to talk about accountability the y axis in transferring that. Sohow do we do it. We're going to talk about accountability through the

lens of the three levels ofaccountability. This is one of my favorite models.

00:30:04:.09 Junior: It really encapsulates a lot of what a leader needs tobe good at to be effective. So walk us through task process, outcome, accountability.Sure. What's going.

00:30:13:.18 Tim: On here. Yeah. So take a look at the y axis. We have threelevels of accountability. The first one is task. What is a task a task is abasic indivisible whole unit of work. So we take everything that we do. Webreak it up into tasks and we say, you do this and you do this, and I'll dothis and we have our tasks.

00:30:33:.18 Tim: We need to be able to complete our tasks at standard andon time. If a person can do that repeatedly, consistently, reliably, that meansthey've mastered task level accountability. But here's the thing with thatjunior task accountability is not a destination. It's not a place where youshould set up camp and say, okay, I’m going to live here.

00:31:01:.01 Tim: It's actually a waystation, so you need to keepprogressing. You need to keep going. So you need to go to the second level,which is process a process. Think about this. What do we do with tasks inorganization. Once we put them together, we string them together in a sequence.And we call it a process. And a process is a string of tasks that we do on a repeatingbasis.

00:31:27:.17 Tim: And so what we want to do with our people is elevate themfrom task to process level accountability. Can you think of processes that wedo?

00:31:37:.19 Junior: JR yeah, in the chat let us know what are some tasksand then what are some processes. I can think of 1,000,001 process is launchinga webinar as one.

00:31:47:.20 Tim: Yeah.

00:31:48:.13

Junior: You should see some of theprocess that.

00:31:50:.17 Tim: We how many.

00:31:51:.08 Junior: Tasks are more than more.

00:31:53:.07 Tim: You put together l Ike hundreds.

00:31:54:.28 Junior: Yeah it's a lot.

00:31:55:.17 Tim: Right. So that's a higher level of accountability. Andthen finally we go to the highest level of accountability, which is outcome.Now when we get to outcome level accountability, you'll notice the relationshipbetween accountability and autonomy. To move to a higher level ofaccountability requires what more autonomy. So if we go to the highest level ofaccountability, which is outcome, then we are transferring the maximum amountof autonomy to go with that, it has to be proportional.

00:32:27:.20 Junior: 00:32:28:09 Tim: And what we're saying is that inmanagement, when you're a people leader, when you have direct reports, we oftensee a mismatch between accountability and autonomy, where the person is giventoo much or too little autonomy to be able to perform and do what they've beenasked to do. That mismatch creates a problem. Now we're trying to transfer asmuch as we can, but the person has to have a demonstrated track record for thatlevel of performance.

00:32:59:.10 Junior: Right. And if they don't, we're going to find ourselvesin a world of hurt, because if we move immediately to outcome levelaccountability and they haven't shown their ability to perform at the level ofthe task or the process, things could go horribly wrong. That's right. So let’stake the webinar as an example. A task might be to create a zoom link for thewebinar.

00:33:19:.25 Junior: Just a single unit of work, right? We can do thatprocess might be to go through the pilots checklist to make sure thateverything is good to go. Are a lot of moving parts, a lot of variables. We’vegot website, we've got social, we've got email, newsletter, our gear, hardware,software, team roles, a million things. Yeah. Outcome level is let's have asmooth webinar.

00:33:42:.27 Junior: Yeah. Right. Yeah. If you go to someone who hasn’tshown the ability to go do the zoom link to go through the pilots checklist andyou just say, yeah, just do the webinar right. How well is that going to go?It's not going to go. Well, it's not. And one of the things I liked Dan said inhere, sometimes transferring the critical thinking can be the long way around.

00:34:00:.15 Junior: It's the same way with accountability. It takes time todevelop people to a place where they can operate at this level ofaccountability. As I've been on the side of giving it too early, that's mytendency. And that can cause problems with holding. It can cause problems,right? And so that's one of the arts. It's one of the pieces of the dance of managementis understanding where people are.

00:34:27:.09 Junior: And that's one of the cool things about doing it insidethe app is there are assessments for all of these things. You can plot people,you can see where they actually are and use that to inform your managementstyle. But if you don't and you just wing it, you don't take into considerationwhere the person is. This can be hard.

00:34:44:.11 Tim: As we like to say, junior, if you're not giving enoughbased on the person’s demonstrated level of performance, you're micromanaging.Yeah, right. You’re being paternalistic. If you're giving too much, then youmay be exhibiting the pattern of what we call an absentee landlord.

00:35:02:.16 Junior: Yeah.

00:35:03:.10 Tim: Which is not good either. So both of those are powerfuljudges, right? Both of those are dysfunctional patterns.

00:35:09:.16 Junior: Yeah. Too early dents, confidence. I love that, Joe.

00:35:14:.00 Tim: That's right. That’s good. That's really good.

00:35:15.:27 Junior: Because if you don't set them up for success and yougive that too early, completely agree. And they may be so well-intentioned andthey may have the work ethic and everything that they might need, but if theyhaven't shown the ability to do it and you're not giving them the tools andmoving them along at a rate that's appropriate, that can be really tough andthat can be hard to recover from.

00:35:37:.12 Tim: Judy, I got to come in a little bit a little bit of acaveat here. The aspiration, if you're a coach and you have direct reports,you're leading a team. The aspiration is to move your people to higher levelsof accountability and be able to give them more autonomy so that they can domore. Yep. Not every single employee will get to outcome accountability.

00:36:03:.17 Tim: And I think that we have to acknowledge that. And that'sokay. We're trying to get as many people as we can to that because that createsmaximum leverage. Yeah. And it also accelerates the development and theperformance of our people. But not everyone. It gets all the way to outcome.But that that needs to be the aspiration. Yeah.

00:36:28:.17 Tim: So you've got to be situationally aware as a coach and youcoach people, based on who they are and their capability and, understandingthem very well. Yeah. But that's what we're trying to do. Yeah.

00:36:42:.26 Junior: Okay. Here we go. So now we're going to combine the twomodels. So if you remember the name of the webinar, the name of the coursecoaching an accountability matrix. So we've talked about coaching the tilde ask

we've talked about accountabilitythe three levels. Now we’re going to put them together to create something new.So when we combine these two models this is what we get the coaching andaccountability matrix.

00:37:08:.06 Junior: So let's go through this in a little bit more detail tohelp people orient themselves to what this model is. So you can see youraccountability on that y axis task process and outcome. You've got yourcoaching on the x axis. Tell, tell, ask and ask. The idea of this model thatwe’ve used for many years is that you can plot your direct reports on thismodel and ask yourself a few questions.

00:37:36:.18 Junior: At what level do I have to manage this person? Is ittell is a whole lot of telling. Maybe they're brand new, maybe that’s okay, butmaybe they're not brand new and it's no longer okay. At what level ofaccountability do they operate? Is it task? Is it outcome? Is it process? Andby doing so you can figure out where they live.

00:37:56:.13 Junior: So let's say that they're brand new right. You’reprobably box one. So you're telling them a whole lot. And they’re operating atthe level of the task.

00:38:04:.03 Tim: That's right. And that’s okay.

00:38:05:.16 Junior: And that's.

00:38:05:.23 Tim: Okay. Yeah. Initially initially.

00:38:07:.17 Junior: But what's the goal?

00:38:08:.21 Tim: The goal is to move them up and to the right. Yeah. Overtime.

00:38:12:.16 Junior: Over time. Right. If you’re in box one we want to getyou to box two.

If you're in box five we want toget you to box six.

00:38:18:.15 Tim: Right. But so often JR we see leaders who are leadingteams. They're trying to coach their people and they don't have a diagnostictool to help them understand the current state of an individual. Where are theyand how do I move them to the next step. Nor do they have a conception ofcoaching that says, oh, it's my job to transfer ownership and transfer criticalthinking.

00:38:49:.16 Tim: So think about how ambiguous that is for a manager tryingto lead and develop a direct report. We've got to have these tools to help usaccelerate.

00:39:01:.25 Junior: Well, let's explore the alternative. So let’s say thatwe don't have tools like this. What's the charge given to us by theorganization? More often than not, it's get me the results. That's usually whatit is. Often and isolation.

00:39:17:.16 Tim: Yeah.

00:39:18:.03 Junior: And then maybe we geta and develop your people whileyou're at it.

00:39:21:.12 Tim: Okay. Right. Hit the numbers. Yeah.

00:39:24:.15 Junior: And build your team. Yeah. Grow your team.

00:39:26:.25 Tim: Develop whatever that means.

00:39:28:.07 Junior: Right. And if we haven't had experience doing that, wehave no North Star. We have no tools. What are we going to do? We probablywon't even make it as far as understanding what it means to develop the people.That's right. So that's why we need to add this sort of

language and these sort of modelsorts of models and tools so that we can say, okay, your objective new leaderor existing leader who's been doing this for 30 years but hasn't figured thisout.

00:39:55:.19 Tim: That's right.

00:39:56:.14 Junior: You're going to transfer critical thinking andownership. That's your job. That's right. Here's how we're going to do it. You'regoing to transfer ownership by working people through task process and outcomelevel. Accountable. And put simply, you're going to transfer ownership byasking more questions. If you're going to lead through inquiry, you have a muchbetter chance of developing the critical thinking of your people.

00:40:20:.04 Junior: So that's why I love this model so much. And so whatthe application does is it allows you to plot your people, and it uses an AIcoach, which we'll get into later, which is super cool to understand what youneed to do to move them to the next box. But theoretically you can understandin principle with nothing else.

00:40:37:.16 Junior: Okay, I have somebody in box 5 or 6, let’s say processlevel, and I want to move to outcome. What does that mean? It means thatinitially, at the level of the outcome, I'm going to have to do some telling,right. Because it might be new, this new project that we're working on, theoutcome that I'm wanting. So I'm going to be pretty directive at the beginning,and I'm going to do so through telling, and we're going to move you to outcome.

00:41:00:.20 Junior: Now, once we're there, once I feel like you’re atoutcome and we can do that through being directive, what am I going to slowlydo over time? Less direction, more autonomy, less telling, more asking so thatwe can get to a point where that person is outcome level accountable and hiscoach primarily through questions. Have you ever had this experience whereyou've had a direct report or someone you've worked with that you've been ableto coach this way?

00:41:26:.26 Junior: They've been at outcome level accountability, and youcan primarily lead through inquiry. That's one of the most beautiful things itis in

all of management, not everyonewill get there, but those who do. Absolute. It’s beautiful to work with thesepeople.

00:41:39:.29 Tim: I want to add a point JR and for all of you watching, takea look at the coaching and accountability matrix. And I want you to noticesomething at tell level accountability. You have boxes one, two and three asyou help move a person through those boxes. That is a journey of mastery attask accountability. Then you move up to process accountability and you haveanother journey of mastery that goes from box four to 5 to 6.

00:42:12:.29 Tim: And then finally there's a third journey of mastery atoutcome level accountability. You go from box seven to 8 to 9. So you said, aminute ago, JR, that we're trying to help our direct reports grow and develop.Well you we've got to operationalize what that means. And so the first step iswe have to understand where they are current state.

00:42:42:.08 Tim: And then the destination. The immediate destination is thenext box. We don't skip boxes. We can't because we’re transferring criticalthinking and we're transferring ownership. So we have to we have to go to thenext box. That's the next natural step of progression. And so when you create acoaching plan for them, you focus on what is needed to get them into the nextbox.

00:43:08:.14 Tim: We're not skipping around. We don't skip one or2 or 3boxes. That's not how development works in human capital.

00:43:16:.16 Junior: I want to call out some of the things that are going onin the chat because it's amazing. Wilson. My employees call me Socrates becauseI asked him so many questions. I love that, and hey, the Socratic method worksfor a reason.

00:43:28:.21 Tim: Yes, yes.

00:43:29:.21 Junior: And then, Julie, I really appreciate everyone sharingtheir perspectives and experiences so freely, deeply impacts my learning. So manymoments are taking place in such a short period of time together. One of the reasonsthat we enable chat, and that we encourage the chat, is because so much of thelearning happens in here, right? We can sit here and we can go through slidesand we can have a discussion that's hopefully fruitful and productive.

00:43:50:.20 Junior: But a lot of the insights, a lot of the lightbulbmoments happen for people in the chat where people are sharing. They're usingtheir own language, they're giving their own experience. And so it's abeautiful thing to be able to come together with hundreds and hundreds ofpeople to share. Yeah.

00:44:05:.10 Tim: To see you're teaching each other.

00:44:06:.18 Junior: Yeah, I love that. So thank you everybody forparticipating in the chat. Okay. So what we've done so far is we've gonethrough all of the theory. Now how do we get to application? How is it that wetake these principles at Leader Factor and we implement them inside organizations?That’s where Leader Factor App comes in. That's where all of our courses comein.

00:44:27:.20 Junior: The actual training enablement piece of what leaderfactor does. So I want to show you the cam course. We call it cam for shortcoaching an accountability matrix lives inside leader factor app in threepieces. We'll call them. The first is coaching tools to self-diagnose and

learn. So one of the things that Ithink I saw a common in here, I can’t scroll up to it right now, was that weneed to learn how to do this ourselves, that many people aren't even ready touse these tools outwardly.

00:44:56:.07 Junior: Yeah, they need to first go. We need some select,right? Like you're in a box, each one of us. That's right. You're in a box.We're in a seven, eight, nine. Maybe we're not. Maybe we're in a two and wehave some work to do. And so one of the things that we do at Leader Factor isassess.

00:45:10:.15 Junior: It's not enough to just train. We need to understandcurrent state so that we can point to a future state and then have some sort of

intervention that helps us getthere. So that's the first piece of the cam course in the app is diagnostics,both for you as a coach and then for your direct reports. So you are looking atpatterns of deflection and derails and coaching skills.

00:45:33:.09 Junior: And I'll show you a couple of the reports that are inthat are pretty neat. But then you plot your direct reports inside models likethis. You're looking at levels of accountability. You're looking at tell to askand you're looking at the matrix as a whole.

00:45:45:.24 Tim: And we're using psychometric scales to be able to help youunderstand where you are.

00:45:51:.06 Junior: Yeah, the rigorous stuff, which is why we have all ofthis stuff in-house. So here's what the coaching skills looks like. Right.Psychological safety transferring ownership accountability transferringcritical thinking to help you understand where you're at as a coach. If youdon’t have any sort of diagnostic, if there's no feedback mechanism, whichthere often isn't true, you're usually in the dark.

00:46:13:.13 Junior: If you have a high level of self-awareness. Fantastic.A lot of people don't. And so part of the aspiration in this course is to helppeople see where they're at. Current state. Look in the mirror. Here’s whatwe're finding. You're not so good at creating an environment of psychologicalsafety for people to engage in this process in the first place.

00:46:32:.20 Junior: Great. We can start there. We've got derailed. This iswhat the derailed looks like inside the app where you're taking an assessment.It's showing you rank ordered. Here are the things that derail your coachingmore often than not. Maybe it's impulsiveness, maybe it's ego. Maybe it's, youknow, one of any number of things, task to outcome. We will literally show youon a chart how well you do at managing task process and outcome levelaccountability.

00:47:01:.10 Junior: It's a beautiful thing.

00:47:02:.25 Tim: Do you know I love that one, junior? Because a lot oftimes we just talk in general terms about, the ability to hold peopleaccountable. That's not good enough. No, that's why we break it down. How goodare you at holding people accountable at task level? How about process? Howabout outcome? Because often you can be good at one but not good at the othersare good at two and not good at one.

00:47:26:.11 Tim: And so we have to break those down. Yeah. Again.

00:47:29:.25 Junior: And then the I coach inside the app is literallyunpacking all of your results, going through all of the context that you’vegiven it, taking all of our material and helping you understand what itis youneed to do now.

00:47:39:.28 Tim: And I have to say, credit to the technology team, JR,because the AI in this app is unbelievable. It's really good. It is so helpful.

00:47:50:.03 Junior: Yeah. And it's not just like a bolt on thing. And Ican't emphasize that enough. I don't mean to disparage anything else, but oftenit is bolt on. Okay, you and a higher performing team, you're here. The higherperforming teams over here, we have to do something. What do we do at leaderfactor training and behavior change? Now, this is the part of the webinar whereyou’re probably expecting us to sell you something, right.

00:48:14:.20 Junior: That's basically we kind of teed that up. And we’vethought about, you know, what might we do in a scenario like this? Right.Should we give a discount to the app. Is that something that we should do? Wecan make a few bucks on the webinar. People might get a discount. They'd bereally happy about that.

00:48:33:.24 Junior: But, yeah, it probably sounds like we’re teeing up apitch, but. And I guess we are to some degree, but it's probably not the pitchthat you're thinking. So what are we going to do? I'll tell you in just onesecond. So hang tight. The alternative to doing what we’re discussing, tostaying in current state status quo.

00:48:58:.25 Junior: Is not encouraging. It's not very appetizing. If youlook at the current state, what's happening? If we neglect the training, if weneglect the behavior change, then one of two things will happen. Either theleader will learn through the school of hard knocks these principles over acareer of decades. And we see this right. There will be light bulb moments atyear 27.

00:49:23:.13 Junior: And that's great. We should always be learning. Yeah,but maybe there are some of those light bulbs that we should have had a decadesooner, 20 years sooner. And we can through doing some of this. Yeah. The otheroption is that we don't learn and how does that look?

00:49:41:.07 Tim: We see it. We see it. The passage of time does notnecessarily make you a better leader. Right. And so we've got to be able tofocus on these specific objectives. And then we can accelerate the process.

00:49:53:.17 Junior: So today's launch day for us at LeaderFactor inthrowing CAM out into the wild. To all of you. And many of you have used a lotof our other courses. You've used EQ index, you've used psych safety, you’veused epic adapt. And we're adding this to the catalog. So it's going to looksomething like this. Now here's the pitch.

00:50:14:.01 Junior: You can purchase the course today for $0.We're going togive you the whole thing for free.

00:50:25:.11 Junior: The entire course.

00:50:26:.16 Tim: Are you sure? Yeah, it’s a pretty good deal.

00:50:30:.24 Junior: It's a pretty good deal. And this is not going to be alight version. It's not going to be diluted. We're not going to pull out thekey pieces. We're not going to pull out the action planning. We’re not going topull out the coaching plans. We're going to give you the

whole thing right now. It’s notsomething that you're going to have to wait a week for.

00:50:51:.23 Junior: It's not something that only one person gets. It’s nota giveaway where ten of you are going to get it for free. Literally everysingle person on this webinar will get this for free. After today’s session, itwill redirect you to the page to sign up to grab the course. This is one of thecoolest things I think we have ever built.

00:51:10:.13 Junior: It’s fun and I get fired up about this because we haveworked so, so hard to make this as good as we can make it. In the time thatwe've had.

00:51:21:.11 Tim: It’s incredible. It is.

00:51:23:.05 Junior: The eye is amazing. The ability to plot your directreports, the coaching plans, the action planning methodology, everything inhere, we hope will be valuable to you. So why are we doing this? Why aren't wecharging for it? Here's the play and we're not being. This isn't Wizard of Oz.We’re going to give this to you because we're so confident that it is as goodas we think that you will want to bring this into your organization, to helpleaders inside your organization, to close the gap between where they are todayand where they need to go, so that you can have higher performing teams, moreinnovative organizations.

00:52:03:.02 Junior: You can stay relevant in as dynamic a time as this is,it's part of our institutional mission to influence the world for good atscale. And so there's nothing scammy duplicitous going on right here. We reallythis is the play. We hope that you enjoy it enough that you will reach out andfigure out how to bring this into your organization.

00:52:22:.03 Tim: Confident in this in solution. Junior, we’ve been we'vebeen using these tools for years. We have finally been able to fully enablethem with technology and AI. And it it's pretty amazing what they can do.

00:52:35:.11 Junior: You bring your products into your organization throughcertification. And that’s something that you'll have an opportunity to reachout about. There will be links, there will be emails and things that you'llhave access to. But we do certification so that you can deploy this contentinside your organization. The Cam course can be deployed on demand orfacilitate. And you can do that facilitation on site.

00:52:54:.29 Junior: You can do it live virtual and that deployment. We'rehappy to do it for you. LF facilitated. If you want to bring us in for anexecutive offsite for a group of cohort workshops, for a high potential group,do that stuff all the time. If you want to do it yourself, you have a

big team of RFPs around the globeand you want to do this at big scale.

00:53:12:.06 Junior: You can get certified to do this, but this and not onlythis, the Total Access Pass is something very unique to what we’re doing insidethe technology. You'll get access not just to Cam through certification, butthrough the other the what the other products as well. So we've got the whole.

00:53:30:.19 Tim: Suite.

00:53:31:.03 Junior: The whole suite, the six domains of emotionalintelligence, four stages, a psychological safety epic, and a whole categorycatalog of things that are coming down the pipe. How are you feeling about someof the things we've got.

00:53:40:.24 Tim: On that's incredible. Yeah, it's the most exciting time.

00:53:43:.19 Junior: It's super exciting. So I'm excited about that. Okay,so where have we been? We've talked about accountability and coaching. We'retalking about transferring critical thinking transferring ownership. This ishow you do it. If there's one thing that you take away from today’sconversation it should be this model. Tim, as we wrap up today, what's on yourmind?

00:54:04:.02 Junior: What would you leave people with before we jump intoQ&A?

00:54:06:.24 Tim: I can't help but think to go back to becoming a peopleleader means that you've got to become a force multiplier. You’ve got to learnhow to scale, impact and influence. And what does that mean? That means thatyou've got to become a great coach. And what does that mean? That means thatyou've got to learn how to transfer critical thinking and ownership.

00:54:29:.02 Tim: So that's the logic. If you're if you're going to be agreat people leader, it has it goes all the way back to being a great coach andtransferring critical thinking and transferring ownership.

00:54:40:.23 Junior: And for those of you out there who already have accessto EQ, you already have access to four stages. You're going to get this to. Sodon't count yourself out. And don't be sad about that. This is coming to youand you know who you are. I know that there are a bunch of you out there like,man, I want that.

00:54:56:.13 Junior: You're going to get it. So don't worry. Okay. Wow.

00:55:02:.03 Tim: That was a lot.

00:55:02:.24 Junior: That was a.

00:55:03:.05 Tim: Lot of stuff. Packed a lot into a few minutes.

00:55:05:.11 Junior: We sure did. So I'm going to go ahead and stop share.And we're going to move into the Q amp. A so what we've done is I’ve hadJillian, compile a few of these questions over the last 55 minutes, and we'regoing to take a couple of those and go into Q&A. Thank you all for beinghere, by the way.

00:55:24:.22 Junior: That was a lot of fun. So we hope that you have enjoyedit so far. Okay. What fears get in the way of leaders mastering the transfer ofthese skills.

00:55:38:.13 Tim: I think JR the, the one of the biggest fears is that theyequate leadership with expertise, and they equate expertise with having theanswers. And so they have a hard time moving into inquiry based leadership,just relaxing and leading through questions and not worrying that they don’thave the answers. And by the way, in a highly dynamic environment, it’simpossible to keep hold of the expert model.

00:56:11:.06 Tim: It's just absolutely impossible. You need to be able tofacilitate discovery with all of your people and work together that way. But Istill I still see a lot of leaders. Feeling very insecure because they may notbe the most knowledgeable, the most skilled, the most competent. As things moveso fast. Yeah.

00:56:33:.20 Junior: I'll add that it's important to understand, to allaythat fear a little bit, that everyone is on their own leadership journey. Andif you look at the best leaders today and I won't even say best leaders, I'llsay those at the tops of organizations, because those are not always the samething. People will think, wow, they were just born with that.

00:56:58:.11 Junior: They have this magnetism. I don't have that. I’m goingto have to rely on really turning the screws on a management perspective andjust, I guess, just tell people what to do. I'm gonna have to be domineering.And those people ahead of me are just not. That's not my path. I can't do that.Everyone is at a stage in this journey.

00:57:22:.01 Junior: Everyone needs to be doing these things. You nevergraduate. So when you say even as CEO, you're still leading the team. Oh yeah,those fundamentals still apply. You have to be brilliant in the basics. Ifthere is something that I've learned flying around, seeing executive teams,engaging with teams, it's that you never graduate. No, you never graduate. Andthe people at Tops of organizations need this just as much as anybody else.

00:57:48:.29 Junior: We're all in it. Okay, let's move on to the next one.How can we make transferring critical thinking appealing to both teams andleaders? How do we communicate the value? I'll start on this one. Yeah. Youhave to help them understand. Leverage the team and the leader. You have tohelp them understand that the current state is painful, and that's the easiestway to do it.

00:58:14:1.4 Junior: If you ask questions like the questions we asked at thebeginning, how much of the critical thinking do you feel responsible for onyour team? Ask. Ask a leader that, and if they come back to you and say like80%. And honestly, I'm pretty tired. Honestly, like I've had a lot of latenights, I lose sleep over this and that gets really hard.

00:58:34:.05 Junior: Like, okay, do we want to stay there? No we don't.What's the solution? Leverage. We need to transfer some of that stuff. And whenthat gets distributed across the team, when I have your back, you have my back.That's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

00:58:47:.23 Tim: I got two comments on that Jennifer. Yeah. First of all,discovery is exhilarating when we do it together. And I think that we need tokeep that in mind. Yeah. Right. You know, because we’re doing it together and,as a leader, you get to lead that process. Yeah. And I think if you do it in away where it's psychologically safe, you draw people in, they're going torelease their discretionary effort, they're going to have a great experience.

00:59:12:.20 Tim: They're going to walk away and say, wow, yeah, that waspretty fantastic.

00:59:16:.03 Junior: Yeah, we're at the top of the hour. We’re going to takejust one more question. But for those of you who have a hard stop, thank you.And we'll see you in the next one. Tim, here's the last question.

00:59:26:.17 Tim: Okay.

00:59:27:.24 Junior: How do we preserve psychological safety as we transferaccountability? And I'll add to that, how do accountability and relationshipwhat's the relationship between those two things.

00:59:41:.00 Tim: Yeah. Well let's go back to the definition ofpsychological safety, which is that it is a function of two things respect andpermission. And so it gives us the basis. It gives us the terms of, terms of engagementto hold people accountable because we maintain respect and we providepermission, we don't violate that. And if we don't violate that, then we canhave some direct, even hard hitting conversations, because people understandwhat our intent is, where we're trying to go.

01:00:15.:27 Tim: So what do we care about? We do we do care about theperformance of the organization. We care about your development as anindividual. You know that that matters. So the intent matters. And then itallows you to provide those conditions where you can hold people accountable.So don't misinterpret psychological safety for being nice. Yeah. Because that’snot what it is.

01:00:38:.19 Tim: Yeah.

01:00:39:.27 Junior: Well everybody we're at the top of the hour. Thank youso much for spending an hour with us. For those of you who lost a little bit ofsleep to be here, hopefully you got your value out of today's conversation. Thelinks will be sent to the full camp course. As I said just a few minutes ago,to everybody on the webinar, you have until Monday and of business, I think wedid five eastern to enroll in the course, and you'll have 30 days full accessto that course.

01:01:10:.04 Junior: Use the tools, please. Use it, use it, use it. Squeezeevery last drop of value you can out of the course and let us knowhow it is. Wewould love to hear your feedback. We've done all of our betas. We’ve done oursoft launch now we're out in the world with this thing. And so we would love tohear what you think.

01:01:27:.29 Junior: If you liked today’s conversation, we would alsoencourage you to subscribe to the podcast. You can do that wherever podcastslive, wherever you consume content like this. The YouTube channel is a greatplace to go. You can see the video, the slides and everything in a similarformat as we did today. So with that we will say thank you Tim.

01:01:46:.05 Junior: Any final words?

01:01:47:.12 Tim: Just thank you. Great experience. Good to be with you.Good to be with everybody.

01:01:51:.01 Junior: And big shout out to the Leader Factory team for makingall of this possible. We hope you all have a great weekend. We’ll see you inthe next one. Bye bye.