00;00;01;09 Junior: Tim, what do you know about collectingcards?

00;00;04;12 Tim: Almost nothing.

00;00;06;00 Junior: I brought I brought an object lesson to.Okay, so for everyone listening.

00;00;11;23 Tim: I have are those Pokemon cards or. What doyou got there?

00;00;14;25 Junior: No, these are sports cards. Sportscards. But hey, for the Pokemon fans out there, that's cool too. I still havemy original 151 collection, so yeah, pretty cool. But in my hand I have a fewsports cards because the principle that I'll talk about has a lot to do. Ithink with the conversation we're going to be having today.

00;00;35;04 Junior: And I brought a special card for you.

00;00;37;12 Tim: Yeah. What do you got there?

00;00;38;25 Junior: That I think you might like.

00;00;39;28 Tim: Oh, I like that. Yeah.

00;00;42;02 Junior: So that's a 2007 fountain Ginter, CarlSanderson.

00;00;47;22 Tim Nice.

00;00;49;04 Junior Tim.

00;00;51;10 Tim: Kenny. Okay.

00;00;53;09 Junior: And,

00;00;54;15 Tim: It's a beautiful card.

00;00;55;20 Junior: So Carl is a wrestler. I mean, maybe youcould tell the audience a little bit about Carl Sanderson.

00;01;01;25 Tim: Well, yeah, he's he's a legend. 159 andzero at Iowa State. Goes on to win the gold medal in freestyle and at theOlympic Games. The head coach at Penn State. He's won what, 13 national titles.Yeah. Yeah. He's the man. He's man. He's a man. So you don't get this one back.

00;01;23;17 Junior: Yeah. Hey you know what? Maybe you cankeep that one. But I got some other cool ones here. I've got Taysom Hill's,rookie utility knife. Yeah, we got, for any Jimmer fans out there, we got Jimmyrookie, an intern. That's kind of fun. Dwayne Wade's rookie, a Steve Nashrookie of who I love Steve I love Steve is one of my favorite athletes alltime.

00;01;46;04 Tim: Oh, he's so good.

00;01;46;26 Junior: My favorite basketball player. We gotthe 93 Michael Jordan tops.

We've got LeBron's rookie dunk in Kobe. Wow. So I pulled afew cards out to bring what.

00;02;02;17 Tim: On earth are you going to teach us fromthis?

00;02;05;09 Junior: Well I've learned a few thingscollecting cards.

00;02;07;29 Tim Okay.

00;02;08;14 Junior: And one of those is that many collectorsare not I mean, they would call themselves card collectors, but they're junkcollectors. And I've collected some junk myself.

00;02;19;20 Tim: So there's a different life.

00;02;20;26 Junior: There's a difference between. And anyonecan collect any way they want. I don't mean to.

00;02;26;15 Tim: Yeah.

00;02;26;27 Junior: Poke too much.

00;02;28;10 Tim: As long as they're having fun.

00;02;29;14 Junior: As long as they're having fun. And ifthat's what they're in it for, which should be what they're in it for, thenfantastic. Yeah. But if you look at the valuable collections, you'll notice apattern. They're often not gargantuan collections. The collections that are thebiggest normally are on the side of less valuable. And so you start to findthis principle in the way that people collect.

00;03;00;06 Junior: And that value is not in volume. Bynature, the value starts to come in focus and in reduction. So this card isn't.

00;03;12;05 Tim: A reduction.

00;03;13;05 Junior: Only valuable as there are fewer ofthem.

00;03;16;07 Tim: Yeah.

00;03;16;22 Junior: So you're always looking at supply.You're looking at pops populations and you're looking at how many cards of thisparticular grade are there. If there are tons and some of these are lessvaluable than others, then it's not valuable. If there are few, it's morelikely to be valuable. The least effective collectors treat everything likeit's treasure. That's an important principle, and a real collector knows thatif everything is valuable, nothing is valuable, and strategy is the same way.

00;03;56;01 Junior: It's not about what you say yes to asmuch as it is what you're willing to let go of and say no to. So today'sepisode is called Leadership Triage How to Prioritize when Everything hurts. Ithas to do with strategy and reduction, which is why I thought that the cardswould be apt for the conversation. Many of us become hoarder leaders the waythat some collectors collect junk.

00;04;28;12 Junior: They're always in acquisition mode. Andthey just collect boxes of worthless junk for lack of a better, a better term.So what do you think about we as leaders who keep everything and we neverspring clean?

00;04;48;03 Tim: Well, I think it goes back to junior, thatfirst principle of economics, which is scarcity. And, we're always dealing withscarcity and in the allocation of our resources. So I, I think this is really,really interesting. We have different options, but we can't pursue everything.And so we have to make tradeoffs. And that never goes away. There's that, that,that need to to reduce alternatives.

00;05;22;25 Tim: Right. One of the definitions that we likeabout strategy is the deliberate reduction of alternatives. But that it itpresupposes to a certain extent that you you have to learn where the value isin order to do the triage. And so if you're a hoarder, if you're a junkcollector, then you're not you're not imposing discipline on your process.

00;05;52;25 Tim: You're not making trade offs. You're notmaking reduction decisions based on assessing where value is. I think that's amajor problem, is a huge problem.

00;06;07;00 Junior: And when we talk about strategy,strategy, who lives in constant tension. We're trying to balance change withcontinuity. We're trying to balance risk with stability. We're trying tobalance creativity with constraint. And so it's difficult for us to pull awayfrom some of the activities that we're doing. It's difficult for us to reduce.Organizations almost never suffer from too few ideas.

00;06;33;05 Junior: They always suffer from a proliferationof ideas and activities.

00;06;38;12 Tim: Okay, now that I think that thought rightthere is worth the price of admission.

00;06;44;17 Tim: That the problem is not that you don't haveenough ideas. We have those, some people would say that they're a dime a dozen.Right. So it's so, so it's about reduction and then acting on the ones that youthink have real promise. And we keep running into this.

00;07;11;07 Junior: Over and over and over again. We see itwith,

00;07;14;22 Tim: It's the same. It's the same principleapplied to talent junior. And I think you're the one that first shared with methe statement, who's that writer that that Stephen King. He said talent ischeaper than table salt.

00;07;34;04 Junior: Shout out Stephen King.

00;07;35;13 Tim: Remember that. I think you're the one thatshare that with me. I've never forgotten that because it's it's so powerful. Sowhat are we saying. There's an abundance of of talent. Okay, but who's what areyou going to work on. What are you going to develop? And that's that's reallywhat it comes down to. So you have to be able to assess potential value, andthen go after that at a personal level, in an organization, you have to do thatwith the strategy that you formulate for the organization.

00;08;11;17 Tim: Yeah. So I think we keep running up againstthis prioritization dilemma over and over again.

00;08;16;28 Junior: We do. And to the talent point, there'sa big difference between strategic thinking and strategic doing. Yeah. And alot of organizations do strategic thinking a lot of people do strategicthinking. They never make it to strategic doing, which is largely reductive.

00;08;32;09 Tim: Yes.

00;08;32;20 Junior: So here's, an interesting stat for you.93% of successful companies had to abandon their original strategy. That's aterm 93%. What does it mean? It means that we have to be willing to throwthings away. That's what it means to me.

00;08;48;25 Tim: Well, what's interesting about that twojunior is that the whoever came up with the original strategy thought it wasgreat.

00;08;57;15 Junior: Yeah, that's why they did it.

00;08;58;20 Tim: Yeah. And then they put resources behind itand they started acting on it and they got down the road and they figured outit wasn't really a great strategy. So then they have to reprioritize, but itjust shows you how often do we get it wrong. Yeah. How often do we assesspotential in a in a misguided way.

00;09;16;25 Tim: Wow. So we have to be willing to look atthings with fresh eyes over and over again and reprioritize and reallocate.

00;09;29;03 Junior: And the less obvious perspective whenyou look at that statistic is that you have to be willing to abandon not justthe bad ideas, but really good ideas. So it could be that the business wassuccessful. It just could be more successful. And so you have to be willing tolet that wash away the current state. That's actually pretty good in pursuit ofsomething even better.

00;09;53;16 Tim: Well, hang on a second, though. It's whatyou said is is is critical.

We need to repeat that. It's one thing to say, okay, here'sthis stuff doesn't have that much potential. These aren't great ideas. Let's,let's let's push those aside. But you just said you're going to have to let goof say no to clear the decks of good ideas.

00;10;17;07 Junior: That's almost all of where this lives.Okay, that's almost all of where this was. How easy is it to abandon somethingthat fails? And here's what's funny most people don't even get that far. WhatI'm saying is that the top one percenters are going to be saying no tobrilliant things constantly, okay? That's when you know you're winning.

00;10;36;18 Tim: That's hard.

00;10;37;14 Junior: It's so hard and it's very hard.Depending on the mindset of people around you, if you have a profitablestrategy that you come and say, we're going to abandon this wholesale jumpship, let it die. People are like, for this, it's working. It's actually really.

00;10;55;16 Tim: Good. Yeah.

00;10;56;11 Junior: And if we continued this way, maybe itwould get even better. Maybe.

But we have to be willing to let it go. And you're going tolose on some of those. Here's some interesting history for you I just barely Ilearned this in preparation for this episode priority. The word was singular.For 500.

00;11;15;06 Tim: Years I did not know that.

00;11;17;14 Junior: It didn't have a plural.

00;11;19;14 Tim: That's all it was just priority.

00;11;21;05 Junior It was.

00;11;21;15 Tim: Just. So what is the priority? So it was.It was the top one thing. One thing.

00;11;27;28 Junior: One thing. The first thing. 500 years.This thing is singular. Then comes modern business. And suddenly we hadpriorities. Plural. As if we could have multiple firsts.

00;11;41;19 Tim: Yeah.

00;11;42;01 Junior: And that just became a thing. How manymeetings are you in where people use the plural? Like more than half the timepeople use the plural. What are the priorities? What are your priorities?

00;11;56;02 Tim: It's true.

00;11;56;24 Junior: So if there is not just one thing, itmeans there are many things, and many things can't be the first thing. And sodefinitionally, it doesn't even make sense. That's not strategy. It's confusiondressed up as productivity. If we're going to just go and we're going to do awhole bunch of stuff and it's all going to be equally important, it doesn't itdoesn't work.

00;12;18;10 Junior: Here's what is weird. We call thathustle. We call that work, and we reward the busyness. And I've been caught inthis trap. I won't even say more than once, more than a thousand times, right?You're chasing things and you're trying to to move the ball forward, but youlose sight of the fact that there does need to be one thing.

00;12;43;00 Junior: I've got a note about it. Sit here beinga team player.

00;12;47;22 Junior: That plays into this hugely. If you sayno to a request. Are you a team player?

00;12;55;00 Tim: It's all right. Now. We bring the socialpressure to to bear.

00;12;58;05 Junior: There's social pressure that makes thisplural.

00;13;00;20 Tim Yes.

00;13;00;28 Junior: Priority. Yes. Right. Greg McCown MickeyMcKeon.

00;13;05;22 Tim: I don't know McKeon. Yeah.

00;13;06;25 Junior: Keenan. He's local.

00;13;08;09 Tim: Yeah. Essentialism I liked his book. Goodbook.

00;13;10;27 Junior: Yeah. He says the concept of prioritiesis a modern distortion. That's

I think accurate. And he says that the modern distortion hasderailed most leaders. So what do we do then, if there are all of these thingsto do? And we're saying that there needs to be one and we need to do triage.

00;13;35;00 Tim: At least we need to know the order just.

00;13;37;11 Junior: Exactly right sequence order.

00;13;39;08 Tim Of.

00;13;39;12 Junior: Priority sequence matters. And so wewere having a discussion prior to this episode about triage. What does it meanin battlefield medicine? Triage is the process of deciding what gets attentionand implicit in triage, at least the way that I perceive the world, is thatthere's need everywhere. There's not a place that isn't hurting.

00;14;00;27 Tim Yeah.

00;14;01;20 Junior: And I think that's the world that welive in. And I've been I've been thinking about this topic. Part of the reasonI threw it in here is because it's been so top of mind. The the landscape ischanging so fast, so fast. Now, I don't know exactly when this will go out, butthere are brand new releases seemingly every day in the world of AI, and wehave an absolute arms race in AI.

00;14;29;18 Junior: It's developing so, so, so fast. Yeah,that my ability to do work. The practical implication of that is that myability to do work is changing. My ability to do work in a given area may bedifferent next week than it is today. Does that mean that I can take a reallystatic priority and work on that for 12 months?

00;14;55;09 Tim: There's no way.

00;14;56;20 Junior: So we need to take that idea of triagefrom the medical world, bring it into leadership, and do the same thing. Wehave limited time, limited attention, limited resources generally.

00;15;10;15 Tim: But here's the thing that I findinteresting, Joe. If we had the same conversation a year ago, it wouldn't bethe same conversation. Things have changed so much. It's like last week, Ithink I asked you. Yeah, I was working on a problem or a question using AI, andyou said, okay, well, you need to use this model on that model.

00;15;31;24 Tim: Yeah. Okay. We would not be having thissame conversation a year ago about the nature of prioritization, the way thatwe are today. Yeah, because of the compression of time frames.

00;15;45;23 Junior: And here's why that's so important. Ifyou make the wrong model selection.

00;15;50;03 Tim: Right. Yes.

00;15;51;14 Junior: Then let's say that that costs you fivehours of output in a, ten day period. Every single one of those compounds,those hours compound. You lost that time forever. It's gone if you choose thewrong model. So if if you take that and you say, okay, this is the way that I'mgoing to use AI for a quarter, no, no.

00;16;20;18 Junior: Right, right.

00;16;22;14 Tim: Maybe a week.

00;16;23;10 Junior: Maybe a week, right? Maybe a week. Andnow that you have to be on like the absolute bleeding edge, but you've got tobe pretty close to the edge of what's going on because so much is at stake. SoWilliam James said, the art of being wise is the art of knowing what tooverlook. There are patterns in quotes like this about wisdom, and the patternthat I've observed is that as people become wiser, they talk about wisdom.

00;16;53;11 Junior: It's about reduction, not addition.

00;16;57;04 Junior: That, to me is really it's a really,really, really interesting thing.

Why? Why is it about reduction? Because you only getleverage through reduction. Because reduction is about concentration.

00;17;10;27 Tim: Yes.

00;17;11;21 Junior: What's what's the opposite ofconcentration. Dilution illusion. If you if you're diluted and there is noconcentration then the leverage goes down. So we're at an opportunity now wherethe leverage could be sky high and the concentration super dense.

00;17;30;19 Tim: Yeah.

00;17;31;17 Junior: And we have to lean into that. But howdo most leaders triage once a year. Once a quarter maybe the best. Do it dailydaily daily. The big

takeaway from this whole conversation is cycle time forprioritization.

00;17;52;27 Tim: I agree that's a that's that's a way that'sa.

00;17;55;16 Junior: Set out what.

00;17;58;21 Tim: I imagine that some of that is based oncontext. What's your role, what industry do you work in? What are theconditions that surround you? For example, say you're in heavy industry and Imean, think about what a capital budget budgeting process looks like. Thinkabout the planning horizon in a, in a, capital intensive business. Right.

00;18;29;24 Tim: So there are factors, but even so, thecommon denominator is that your cycle time has been is becoming increasinglycompressed even week after week.

00;18;46;23 Junior: That's something that I've seen in myown work, which is it's not enough for me to lay out my priorities on a Sundaynight or a Monday morning, put my calendar in stone and say, this is what I'mgoing to be working.

00;19;00;17 Tim It's a.

00;19;01;01 Junior: Fool's errand. Yeah, it's a fool'serrand. If I did that by the end of the week, I would be so far off. It's noteven funny.

00;19;08;27 Tim: So. So tell us then, junior, about how youdo prioritize. And it's all it's almost. Well, well, you do it daily. But thenthere's a real time component to it as well. Yeah.

00;19;22;03 Junior: True. Totally. And I wish that there Iwish it were daily. Sometimes it's like so early.

00;19;30;04 Tim: Yeah.

00;19;30;17 Junior: So it's like and so it's it's not evenprioritize. I'm thinking about making a language change here instead of sayingprioritize say reprioritize. Yes. To emphasize this idea of the fact that it isnever done, you're redoing it all the time, forever. And for me, it does taketime. It's the first thing that I will do every single morning is figure out.

00;19;56;17 Junior: And I use the one thing questioned byGary Keller. What is the one thing that, if done, would make everything elseeasier or irrelevant? Part of the reason that that that question is importantis it's not just a task list to go bang out there. Order matters. Sequencematters. If I do item seven up front, it could be that now items 4 or 5 and sixare no longer important.

00;20;24;13 Junior: I solved for them already. So you'reasking every single day you're doing this constant thing where you you need tohave some sort of

North Star that's far enough in the distance that you'redirectionally correct, and then you iterate at the frontline just constantly.What's new? What changed? What do I know now that I didn't know yesterday? Andyou use all of that information to reallocate your resources every single day.

00;20;51;29 Junior: And that has to be the cycle time. Ifit's weekly or monthly or quarterly, then you have a problem. So if it'squarterly, if it's quarterly and that's what your institution just dictates,then you're working at an organization that's not going to be around for thatlong. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. Like I don't know what the timeline isand it takes a long time to sink a big ship sometimes, but that's the way thatthe world is heading.

00;21;20;18 Tim: So junior, at this point, I'm thinking thatmaybe this this conversation is scaring some people. Some of this.

00;21;26;16 Junior: Probably scares.

00;21;28;05 Tim: Me. So. So how do you do this in a way? Howdo you do this in a way that it actually lowers stress, increases confidence,increases the probability that you will be successful at it and in and do youfind that in your own experience that as you do it effectively, that you arereducing, the, the, as you say, the ambient stress level around you?

00;22;00;15 Tim: I mean, just talk about that a little bit.

00;22;05;05 Junior: That's hard. That's hard. I think manyof us are trying to figure this out.

00;22;09;15 Tim: Well, if we don't do it this way, then itgets worse.

00;22;14;12 Junior: Oh, it's certainly.

00;22;15;10 Tim: Right because things are moving so fast.Yeah, there's this compression.

00;22;19;28 Junior: There and that's where it getsinteresting in the way that I would probably frame. My answer is that there arethese universal principles of leverage and focus that will always be true.They're just more acute now because of the pace of technological change. So youhave to stay at the front enough that you keep pace with the change curve.

00;22;46;14 Junior: You can't let that distance become toogreat or you'll be left behind.

And once you get left behind with this change curve, it willbe really, really difficult, if not impossible to catch up. So if we speakpractically, the first thing that I'll do is I'll lay out my priority for theday. What is the one thing that has to happen today?

00;23;11;15 Junior: Just the one based on the knowledge thatI have, based on the information and the way the world looks today, what's theone thing that I have to do? And I'll try to get that thing over the line, andthat thing may change at noon, but that's the way that it has to happen. If Ihave the priorities laid out, then it decreases the ambient stress becausethey're known variables.

00;23;31;20 Junior: At least I think they're knownvariables. Now there's like a black swan lurking somewhere or some confoundingvariable that I'm not acknowledging, but mentally, that's the way that I haveto do it. And one of the most useful things that I have done is if you usedictation with your favorite GPT, preferably one with a lot of reasoning, andyou can, you know, use what you will.

00;23;57;15 Junior: I will just talk. I would say onaverage, my dictation is like a 7.5 minute dictation in the morning, and itwill be just everything that's on my mind. And I will have an AI help meprioritize because the I mean, at this point, with as good as the memory is forsome of these, GPT has huge context.

00;24;17;13 Tim: Yeah.

00;24;17;25 Junior: And can help me do that if for no otherreason. Like even if it doesn't do reasoning and critical thinking with me, itcan lay out in a task list everything that I told it, and we can get it on thecalendar and work towards it. So that's that's what we do. So this afternoonI'm gonna do the same thing.

00;24;36;06 Junior: We're going to finish recording thisepisode, and I'm going to go and

I'm going to say, okay, I've got x number of hours left inthe workday. What's going to make the biggest difference? And how am I going tospend the time? That's that's how it has to go. And this the best leaders aredoing this this way.

00;24;53;04 Junior: Not that I include myself in that bucketall the time, but I know that people are trying to figure this out because it'sso dynamic. That's right. What about you? How do you prioritize? Well, affectsyou? Similarly.

00;25;04;06 Tim: I used to think that I was really goodbecause I prioritize at the beginning of the day and then kind of at the end ofthe day, yeah.

00;25;12;28 Junior: That's good, is good.

00;25;14;21 Tim: That is good. But but I'm finding now thatthat's not even sufficient because the day becomes so dynamic. Yeah. Andthere's a lot of walk in traffic and there's a lot of I think I have I think Ihave the order of operations down and then I've got to change it and I've gotto shift. And I guess the thing that I would say is that it seems a littlechaotic, but if you're not reprioritizing, it's worse.

00;25;39;24 Tim: Yeah. That's that's the thing that I wouldsay.

00;25;42;04 Junior: Yeah. I don't know that there's a way toget away from the chaos. Completely. It's just part of it. And that's somethingthat, you know, I need to better understand. I'm trying to help the team.Understand is that if you're looking for stasis, this is not your place. It is.

00;25;57;28 Tim: It's not. This is probably not your decadeor.

00;26;02;01 Junior: No. No, right.

00;26;03;29 Tim: It's not.

00;26;04;20 Junior: It's not. You know, there are placesthat you can find that. But also like, how boring is that? Yeah. Like we livein arguably the most exciting time to be alive.

00;26;15;10 Tim: Well, I think that brings up the point thatwe're not trying to survive. We're trying to flourish. Yeah, in this kind ofenvironment. And it's possible to do. But there are some basic things that youhave to do. And one is this you have to prioritize and reprioritize, veryfrequently.

00;26;35;13 Junior: To take it back to the title. So thetitle is How to Prioritize When

Everything Hurts You. There are a couple practical thingsthat I'll speak to here. One, you have to be very clear in your communicationabout what you're not going to do. And spend time on to the people around you.

00;26;53;06 Tim: That.

00;26;53;14 Junior: Has to be crystal clear, and you have todo that all the time. Here's what I'm working on. Here's what we're not doing.So good example. We had a feature request come in for the app last week. Therewas something actually pretty important. It would make a big difference to ourinternal team and to our users. And the logic is sound.

00;27;14;21 Junior: The pitch is decently written and we hadto say nope. The soonest that we will likely get to this is six weeks away.It's it's fantastic. We need it. It would be amazing if we had it. But thereare other things that we feel take precedence. So we're going to kick that downthe road. Yeah, even though it would be great and you have to do that all thetime.

00;27;44;00 Junior: And that gets really difficult when youhave these tools that can trick you into thinking you can do a hundred timesmore, but what I've learned is that it doesn't matter. You may end up veryefficiently doing the wrong thing. That's dangerous. It doesn't matter howefficient you are, how much leverage you have, if it's pointed in the wrongdirection.

00;28;14;09 Junior: So I think that's the easiest way tomess this up as a high performer is to get a whole lot done. But it's just thewrong stuff.

00;28;24;12 Tim: Yeah.

00;28;25;00 Junior: And that's where the reduction comes in.And saying no, spending time figuring out what the right thing is and grapplingwith that constantly.

00;28;33;25 Tim: I think saying no is both liberating andempowering. It reminds me of, I think it was just this morning I sent you andJillian an email and I said, there's the solicitation had come in to work onthis writing project, and we looked at it and it looked very attractive atfirst. And but we just analyzed it. And today I just said, no, it's hard to do.

00;29;03;17 Tim: Not going to do it, but I, I you can tellafter when you say no, you think about it and you let some time and you get alittle space and you can, you can tell that was the right thing to do. And youfeel empowered by doing that. You think that was the right decision.

00;29;21;18 Junior: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So to summarizestrategy is mostly subtraction. That's the first thing we have to understand.Two we need to decrease the cycle time in which we reprioritize. If it's a yearmake it a quarter. Or if it's a quarter make it a month. If it's a month, makeit a week. If it's a week, make it a day.

00;29;43;21 Junior: It needs to be that constant. In thesame breath, you have to have a North Star to make sure that you'redirectionally correct. So whatever your big audacious goal is needs to be wellthought out and you need to be moving in the same direction, and then you'll behitting the bumper rails of the bowling alley as you go toward it.

00;29;59;22 Junior: But you don't want to be spending toomuch time on things that aren't the right things. I would be curious if there'sanyone listening who has some tips and tricks, the way that they're using toolsto do this job. Because we're all trying to figure this out together. Theenvironment is dynamic, and I'm trying to learn as fast as I possibly can.

00;30;19;18 Junior: And I think each of us needs to be doingthat. If our aspiration truly is to have a lot of influence, what are yourclosing thoughts? 00;30;26;00 Tim: Reduce in focus and then do it again. Other.Okay.

00;30;31;22 Junior: Also, if there are any card fans outthere, would love to hear from you in the comments. Always fun to find fellowcard collectors. But yeah, hopefully that was valuable for everybody today. Wewill catch you in the next episode. Bye bye.

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